HELL...is it a real place?

Gandalf2013 · **Gandalf2013**

Hell is a state of mind. It also depends on one's view of hell. One's hell could be another's heaven and vise versa. Hell, if referred to a location, simply represents the last place you want to be. If referred to a state of mind, it's all the fears one has, turning into a never ending cycle.

Of course many view hell as a place of burning fire and never ending torture. This is simply because it's a common fear many have for it is rare to find someone who would take pleasure in that. Does hell exist after one leaves this plane of existence? Only if you believe it to be so.

~ Gandalf
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Rhyknow · **Rhyknow**

Of course, to me Hell has never existed... but I always imagined it to be a place like in Clive Barker's "Hellbound Heart" novel
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Gandalf2013 · **Gandalf2013**

Consider this, what's the worst day of your life? That could be interpreted as a day in Hell for it is a day I'm sure you would not want to experience again.

~ Gandalf
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Rhyknow · **Rhyknow**

you got that right Gandalf... i don't want to experience it again...
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Gandalf2013 · **Gandalf2013**

I would ask to describe that day but I'm not sure if you want to re-live this experience in your mind. I'll let you decide..

~ Gandalf
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Rhyknow · **Rhyknow**

Don't worry, i'm past it...

Couple of years ago i was caught in an explosion in a bar... i was leaning forward eating which was what saved me... the window exploded and sent glass inches above my head... the guy behind me gets most of my share... when I wake i'm halfway into shock... there's a sound of crying... I look over and see the waitress plastered on the wall, and when she vomits glass and drops down dead it's a releif for me. I have glass embedded all down my left arm, a hole where my leg used to be... and a huge gash in my side... I see a man, he's still alive. I crawl over to him and see his heart's ripped... So i pinch it closed until the ambulances arrive.

That's my idea of hell my friend... If I had to relive it... i'd go insane... it's not something ANYONE should have to deal with
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Gandalf2013 · **Gandalf2013**

Rhyknow · **Rhyknow**

It was so ridiculous... everybody wanted it to be Al Queaida (sp?) or the IRA... but it was just some crazy english guy...
You have to get over it... i just block it out
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Gandalf2013 · **Gandalf2013**

Like all things, an experience becomes a memory, then a dream, soon to be a distant story. As long as you're smiling today, these memories will soon be distant so that blocking them out wouldn't even be a need. Keep filling your heart with good memories, it's what you deserve.

~ Gandalf
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Sean · **Sean**

Forgive the length of this post, but it's really fascinating ... and from a Christian perspective!!! I applaud--though I might not agree with everything here--his honesty on this very difficult topic.

Have the Fires of Hell Been Put Out? -by Joe Paul...

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August 7, 1999
Have the Fires of Hell Been Put Out?

In his weekly general audience (July 28,1999), Pope John Paul II spoke about hell to 8,500 pilgrims and to the world. . . . "Last week," THE SENTINEL (Florida, August 2), reports, "the Pope defined hell, telling Catholics it is not a physical place and there are no flames—at the very least calling into question a thousand years of Christian art. . ." To this idea, the Rev. Charles Horton of College Park Baptist Church assented, "Hell is eternal separation from God's love. A separation from God is worse than fire."

Indeed, for over 100 years Bible Students have been teaching that the Bible "hell" is not a place of torment, but the condition of the unconscious dead.

No More a Place of Endless Torment!

Just a few years ago, Monitor Radio (January 1996) in London reported, "In Britain, the Church of England has decided that Hell is need of a makeover. In a new study, the church's 'Doctrine Commission' debunks the traditional image of Hell as a place of endless torment." This announcement was followed up in the British newspaper, THE INDEPENDENT: ". . . people will be bitterly disappointed by the Church of England's latest report. Hell exists, it says, but may well be empty. . . cold in its innermost depths. The idea that Hell is a place of endless torment or burning is denounced as contributing to a blasphemous picture of God as a sadist. Similarly, the report regards as unnecessary the traditional understanding of the soul as a substance separable from the body which flies towards (or downwards) at death. Instead, it proposes that the soul be understood as the 'information-bearing pattern of the body,' which may be held in the mind of God after death."

So what is hell then? "Hell is not eternal torment," said the Doctrine Commission, "but is the final and irrevocable choosing of that which is opposed to God so completely and so absolutely that the only end is total non-being."

Hell Has Terrified Christians for 2,000 Years:

In the U.S. INQUIRER Staff Writer, David O'Reilly comments (January 21, 1996) on this announcement, "The Doctrine Commission of the Church of England last week proposed that hell is possibly not an eternal realm of screams, agony, fire and pitchforks, such as has terrified Christians for 2,000 years. The Anglicans suggest instead that hell is most likely a non-place—a state of nothingness."

He also suggested that "the idea of annihilation of the wicked—rather than torment in an eternal hell—has gained in evangelical circles in the past several decades." Indeed, Billy Graham had already admitted, "When it comes to a literal fire, I don't preach it because I'm not sure about it" (TIME, November 15, 1993).

Hell as Taught through the Age:

Whether a literal hell fire was believed or taught by previous popes, according to THE CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, "The church professes her faith in the Athanasian Creed: 'They that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.' The Church, furthermore, confirmed this "truth" in subsequent Councils according to this Catholic encyclopedia. Also, "in countless passages of her liturgy, she never prays for the damned. Hence, beyond the possibility of doubt, the Church expressly teaches the eternity of the pains of hell as a truth of faith which no one can deny or call in question without manifest heresy."

In the early Catholic Church, the fire of hell was generally considered as a real material fire, though Oregin imagined it as the separation between the soul and God and for the purpose of healing or correction. Augustine leaves his readers to choose between a literal or more spiritual perception of hell. From the 8th to the 16th centuries the tendency was to regard punishments of hell more as physical. The Reformation made little change in the doctrine as to the nature of hell. (MCCLINTOCK &STRONG'S BIBLICAL ENCYCLOPEDIA, VOL. 4)

The Romish Church used this doctrine as a part of her scheme for raising money from her ignorant, fearful subjects. Thus the liberality of friends could alleviate the time in purgatory of hellfire. Monetary payments for indulgences were the fund raisers of the sixteenth century. "As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs." At first indulgences were conferred on those who sacrificed or risked their lives in fighting against the infidel [as in the Crusades] and then they were extended to those who—unable to go to the Holy land—made contributions for the release of family and friends from hell-fire. This God-dishonoring abominable doctrine also served to justify the torture of heretics. The turning point was the French Revolution. . . .

The Bible Hell:

Out of the Nineteenth Century rose a flurry of Bible study—made possible by the flood of Bibles published by Bible Societies. During this time of general enlightenment, however, many people were refusing to believe what they assumed the Bible taught about hell. Many even gave up their belief in the Bible itself as authority for any belief. But in 1881 Charles T. Russell published "Food for Thinking Christians," which provided a full exposition of every text of Scripture in which the word "hell" is found. "Hell," after all, is an English word.

Vindicating God's character and plan, he proceeded to share with earnest truth-seekers that "hell" came from an old English word meaning to conceal, to hide, to cover. In old English literature records may be found of the helling of potatoes, e.g., putting potatoes into pits. The world "hell" was, therefore, properly used synonymously with the words "grave" and "pit" to translate the Hebrew sheol and the Greek word hades as signifying the secret or hidden condition of death..

Hell in the Old Testament:

As before noted, the word hell occurs thirty-one times in the Old Testament, and in every instance it is sheol in the Hebrew. It does not mean a lake of fire and brimstone, or anything at all resembling that thought; not to the slightest degree! Quite the reverse: instead of a place of blazing fire, it is described in the context as a state of "darkness" (Job 10:21); instead of a place where shrieks and groans are heard, it is described in the context as a place of "silence" (Psa. 115:17); instead of representing in any sense pain and suffering, or remorse, the context describes it as a place or condition of "forgetfulness" (Psa. 88:11 and 12). There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, in the grave (sheol) whither thou goest (Eccl. 9:10)."

The meaning of sheol is "the hidden state," as applied to man's condition in death, in and beyond which all is hidden, except to the eye of faith. Thus, by proper and close association, the word was often used in the sense of grave - the tomb, the hidden place, or place beyond which only those who have the enlightened eye of the understanding can see resurrection, restitution of being. It should be particularly noted that this identical word sheol is translated grave thirty-one times and pit three times in our Common Version by the same translators more times than it is translated hell. Twice where it is translated hell, it seemed so absurd, according to the present accepted meaning of the English word hell, that scholars have felt it necessary to explain in the margin of modern Bibles that it means grave (Isa. 14:9 and Jonah 2:2). In the latter case, the hidden state, or grave, was the belly of the fish in which Jonah was buried alive-and from which he cried to God!

Hell in the New Testament:

In the New Testament, the Greek word hades corresponds exactly to the Hebrew word sheol. As proof see the quotations of the Apostles from the Old Testament, in which they render it hades. For instance, Acts 2:27, "Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [hades]," is a quotation from Psa. 16:10, "Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [sheol]."

Sheol = Hades

And in 1 Cor. 15:54, 55, "Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave "[hades]," where is thy victory?" is an allusion to Isa. 25:8, "He will swallow up death in victory," and to Hos. 13:14, "O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave [sheol], I will be thy destruction."

The Rich Man in Hell:

"In hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments." Luke 16:23:

In the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, the rich man represented the Jewish nation. That nation was rich in every way, especially with the favor of God (Rom. 3:1,2) At the time Jesus spoke the parable, and for a long time previous, the Jewish nation had "fared sumptuously" every day, being the special recipients of God's favors. (The Apostle Paul's reference to Israel's special favor "because that unto them were committed the oracles of God."—Rom. 3:2) In the parable Lazarus represented outcasts from Divine favor. Although these included publicans and sinners of Israel, in the main they were Gentiles: all nations of the world aside from the Israelites. These, at the time of the this parable was taught, were entirely without those special Divine blessings which Israel enjoyed. They lay at the gate of the rich man. When, as a nation, Israel rejected Christ, the "Rich Man" soon found himself in a cast-off condition—in tribulation and affliction. It has been such a condition that Israel has suffered for almost 2,000 years.

In the Parable the dissolution of the Jewish polity is well illustrated by the symbol of death, and their dispersal amongst the nations by the symbol of burial. To these symbols our Lord added a third: In hell [hades, the grave] he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off."

The dead cannot lift up their eyes, nor see either near or far, nor converse; for it is distinctly stated: "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave;" and the dead are described as those who "go down into silence" (Eccl. 9:10; Psa. 115:17).

But the Lord wished to show that great sufferings or "torments" would be added to the Jews as a nation after their national dissolution and burial, and that they would plead in vain for release at the hand of the formerly despised Gentiles. And history has borne out this parabolic prophecy.

The Greek: Gehenna and Tartaroo:

In the New Testament two other words are rendered hell: "gehenna" and tartaroo. Gehenna occurs in the following passages:

Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33
Mark 9:43, 45, 47
Luke 12:5
James 3:6

Gehenna is the Grecian mode of spelling the Hebrew words which are translated "Valley of Hinnom." This valley lay just outside and to the south the old city of Jerusalem, and served the purpose of sewer and garbage burning site for the city. The offal, garbage, etc., were emptied there, and fires were kept continually burning to consume utterly all things deposited therein, brimstone being added to assist combustion and insure complete destruction. But no living thing was ever permitted to be cast into gehenna. The Jews were not allowed to torture any creature.

God gave us an object lesson by using the people of Israel to illustrate his dealings and plans, present and future. We should, therefore, expect that thisValley of Hinnom, or "gehenna," would also play its part in illustrating things future. It was actually the type or illustration of the Second Death—final and complete destruction from which there can be no recovery. For after that, "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," but only "fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries" (Heb. 10:26, 27).

Undying Worms of the Valley of Hinnom:

"If thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell (gehenna), into the fire that never shall be quenched: And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell [gehenna], And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell [gehenna] fire: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:43-44
Here the lesson is the same as that unfolded by the Master in Matt. 5:29, 30. But what about the undying worms and the unquenchable fire? We answer, in the literal "gehenna", which is the basis of our Lord's illustration, the bodies of dead animals, etc., frequently fell upon ledges of rocks and not into the fire kept burning below. Thus exposed, insects would breed worms (larva) and be consumed by them, as completely and as surely as those which burned. No one was allowed to disturb the contents of this valley. Hence the worm and the fire together completed the work of destruction "the fire was not quenched and the worms died not." This would not imply a never-ending fire, nor everlasting worms. What the fire did not destroy—the worms did!

The thought is that the worms did not die off and leave the carcasses there, but continued and completed the work of destruction. So with the fire—it was not quenched, it burned on until all was consumed. Just so if a house were ablaze and the fire could not be quenched, but burned until the building was destroyed, we might properly call such an "unquenchable fire." Our Lord wished to impress the thought of the completeness and finality of the Second Death, symbolized in "gehenna". All who go into the Second Death will be thoroughly and completely and forever destroyed; no ransom will ever again be given for any (Rom. 6:9); for none worthy of life will be cast into the Second Death, or lake of fire, but only those who love unrighteousness after coming to a full and accurate knowledge of the truth. Not only in the above instances is the Second Death pointedly illustrated by "gehenna," but it is evident that the same Teacher used the same figure of the Valley of Hinnom to represent the same thing in the symbolic language of Revelation though there it is not called "gehenna," but a "lake of fire."

The Tartaroo Hell:

The Greek word "tartaroo" occurs but once in the Scriptures and is translated hell.

"God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell [tartaroo], and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment." 2 Pet. 2:4

This word very closely resembles "tartarus", a word used in Grecian mythology as the name for a dark abyss or prison. But tartaroo seems to refer more to an act than to a place. The fall of the angels who sinned was from honor and dignity, into dishonor and condemnation, and the thought seems to be: "God spared not the angels who sinned, but degraded them."

Satan's Lie:

Where did the idea come from of a eternity of suffering in flames of fire? In the Garden of Eden God clearly gave Adam the penalty of sin as death. And Satan-working through the serpent—totally contradicted God:

GOD: "For in the day that thou eatest thereof dying thou shalt die." Gen. 2:17

SATAN: "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die." Gen. 3:4

Of course, Satan has the distinction of being the Father of Lies (John 8:44). We are not surprised that, therefore, his lie that man would not die was repeated and repeated successfully throughout history. From man's earliest religions and mythologies, the idea of a place of torture after death for some—or the many—was evident. From the Babylonian "Hell," the Greek, the Egyptian and the Roman traced the same notion polluting the Jewish and then the Christian understanding of life after death.

The penalty of sin was that "the soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Ezek. 18:4). The penalty of sin was death, not any kind of conscious torment. The Bible never taught that "hell" has literal fire.

Conclusions:

At the conclusion of this investigation of the Bible use of the word hell, thank God, we find no such place of everlasting torture in the Bible! Regardless of what man may say either way—as is found in the creeds or announced from the pulpits—we have found the Bible "hell," sheol, hades is the grave. The penalty upon all our race condemned on account of Adam's sin is death, not eternal torment. Hell is the tomb: the death condition. And we find another hell (gehenna the Second Death: utter destruction) is the final penalty upon those few who, after being redeemed and brought to the full knowledge of the truthand to full ability to obey it, shall yet choose death by insisting on a course of opposition to God and righteousness. How just. How reasonable. How loving our God. And our hearts say,

"Amen! True and righteous are thy ways, thou King of nations! Who shall not venerate thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? For thou art entirely holy. And all nations shall come and worship before thee, because thy righteous dealings are made manifest" (Rev. 15:3, 4).

Posted on Aug 10, 2002, 5:54 AM

Respectfully,

Sean
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Then will I give unto my chosen and righteous the washing and the salvation for which they have sought me, in the field of Acherusa, which is called Aneslasle or Elysium Apocalypse of Peter

Dr Who · **Dr Who**

Hell does exist, its run by Microsoft.

Greatest I am · **Greatest I am**

The reality of the traditional everlasting hell will likely only be known when we get there.

Whether you think you are ending in heaven or in some hell, to get to heaven, we must all eat of the tree of knowledge and sin.

The only way to judge if God would have created a hell is to judge it on moral grounds.

This is the only possible proof.

Questions like,
Is it just to sin for 120 yrs. and suffer for 12000000000000000+ yrs. to infinity?
Is it just for small sinners to spend eternity with Hitler and his chums?
Is it just for punishment to continue after the lesson is learned?
Is do it, my way or burn forever, the type of freedom of choice that God would give His souls?

Would these be called cruelty?

What a game to play! Create a place for eternal bliss as well as a place for eternal suffering. Then create beings whom you love dearly and watch over. And in the end, decide which to consider "trash" and "throw away" into the place for eternal suffering and which to cling to and love in the place for eternal bliss. Even man, with all his faults, is greater and more responsible.

I have asked these questions of many believers and have received some novel, across the board replies.

My position is that no worthy God would need such a place and strange as it seems, the Bible says just that and believers will just not believe it.

These and other anomalies are what will insure that the world swings to secularism.

Only a God who loves to hate would create a hell.

Regards
DL
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God is a cosmic consciousness.
Telepathy the key.
It is our next evolution. No choice.

Ripley · **Ripley**

“Maybe there is no actual place called hell. Maybe hell is just having to listen to our grandparents breathe through their noses when they're eating sandwiches.”

Jim Carrey

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to have extreme prejudice."

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