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Post subject: Scary Thinking - is it 1306 or 2006?
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Recently on UM Zandore Seanp and myself (and others) have been having a “running gun battle” with a group of fundies over Chrisitianity's heritage of evil. I had brought up the Albigensian Crusade as a point of the sheer malice of Christians towards brother religionists. Then I noticed this exchange between a non-Christian and a fundie on another thread. This really shows the Christian thinking, and shows that there is not much difference between Christian thinking and that of the most rabid Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorist. The question posted by the non-Christian was:
“Now this is just hypothetical but if your god asked you to kill lets say 3 certain people even though these 3 people had not done really anything wrong if he asked you to kill them because it would bring eternal happiness to everyone or that it would save everyones souls and give them a place with god WOULD you do it.”
And the answer from the Christian was:
“Hypothetical, yes.
I don't like your example, but I'd have to say being that I obey what God commands, then yes, I would do what he told me to do.”
The Church had the people of the former Roman Empire believing that it was the conduit from God himself and if they told them to destroy someone, they would….BECAUSE GOD TOLD THEM TO!!! This is understandable, to a point, with ill educated/uneducated peoples such as a lived during the Middle Ages, but it is scary isn’t it, that such thinking still exists in the 21st century. Strangely the other Christians on that forum didn’t see anything wrong with the thinking displayed! - Mako 
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 Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:12 pm |
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| Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:46 pm |
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I hate to say this
"Shocking" but not surprising considering some of the Christians there I would possibly consider extremist.
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NATIVE AMERICAN WISDOM |
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| Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:07 pm |
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Wow...!!!! Just Wow....so if their God told them to go kill people for the sake of saving souls..etc,...some extreme christians would do it without blinking an eye and say that they were justified to do that because God told them to do it...sounds like a lot of people who go to prison for killing and saying the Devil made me do it....Just ridiculous...For instance...a lady who just killed her children I think there were 5 of them that she drowned...changed her plea to insanity and told the court that she kept hearing satan tell her to kill her children....hmmm did she do it because she had Post partum depression or was she just losing her mind..and if that was the case why didn't anyone get her help...and now instead of life in prison she now gets life in a insane asylum..which is the lesser of evils???? Satan made her do it...hmmmm....just WOW!!! El Bandito
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Never fear the dead, fear the living, they are more dangerous...."Trust Me" |
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| Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:27 pm |
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To quote old Spock, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few..."
Or, like in "Angel" where the choice is letting some weirdo creature woman eat people every day so long as everyone else is joyful, or taking her down and making the entire world miserable again...
Now I sound like a telly-junkie.
Interesting ethical question, though. If by killing a few you could save thousands from suffering, why not do it? But there's a difference between taking down a corrupt political leader and three guys you bowl with every Thursday... unless they keep hitting the gutter instead of the pins...
Isn't it expected that God can ask for anything from one of his people and have it done, though? That seems to be the theme in much of the early bible at any rate. |
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| Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:39 am |
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The attitude of "obeying god" to kill someone isn't that strange. Look at the christian zealots that blow up abortion clinics and shoot doctors who perform them here in the US.
Not too different from muslim extremists, in my book.
So bandito, if one of your neighbors was told by their god that YOU had to die to bring world peace & happiness, you wouldn't have a problem with that?
What if your god commanded that all the first born males in your town had to die? from the oldest to a child hours old?
A more benign god, rather than have his followers slaughter others, would ask which of its beleivers would be willing to die themselves
for world peace and happiness.
of course, despite our 21st century technological marvels, we are still savage barbarians under a thin veneer of civilization. Imagine for a moment, the end of civilization as we knowit. ALA Mad Max, or "day after tomorrow". People still exist, but the tech base is gone. How long do you suppose it would take for us to revert to primitive tribalism and unfettered savagery? How many generations before the facts of today become the survivors myths and fables?
IMO, though, ANY god that requires a sacrifice of innocent blood, is no god I would bend a knee to.
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Masks reveal what they conceal. Indeed, a person does not hide behind a mask so much as struggle beneath the weight of it.
visit the boarder |
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| Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:43 am |
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So bandito, if one of your neighbors was told by their god that YOU had to die to bring world peace & happiness, you wouldn't have a problem with that?
What if your god commanded that all the first born males in your town had to die? from the oldest to a child hours old?
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JMPD...yep I would have a problem with it....Seeing as I don't believe in God...at all...No higher being for me...I'll follow my own path thankyou...but if I were the target of some extremist who believed that their God told them to do it...Well hehe...let's just say they wouldn't win the battle...I'm afraid I would have to take them down before they even blinked any eye umm I would would call that self defense against an extremely insane person......Put it this way....IMO if someone has that mentality I call them insane...I don't believe that "HOGWASH" That they come up with hoping they'll get a lesser sentance if they say..."Their God told them to do it..."...
As far as "My God commanding that all first born males are killed"...Well I don't have a "My God" ...don't believe in it at all...I'm an atheist through and through...El Bandito
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Never fear the dead, fear the living, they are more dangerous...."Trust Me" |
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| Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:15 pm |
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| JMPD wrote: |
So bandito, if one of your neighbors was told by their god that YOU had to die to bring world peace & happiness, you wouldn't have a problem with that?
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I think i might have a problem with that, EB is a great person and my emails won't be filled with her funny jokes anymore  |
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| Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:17 pm |
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Well thank you Miss Dit...your a real sweetheart....El Bandito 
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Never fear the dead, fear the living, they are more dangerous...."Trust Me" |
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| Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:46 pm |
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I find religion as a good guide to better ones living by set rules, to follow them as a guide only is fine. To ram it down anothers throat and/or to go about like some extremist f**kwits and kill because they are not of the same religion as you is just pure and simple abuse of the guide/religion, taking it too far and using it for thier own barbaric, backward and nazimic end.
just my 1.1p
To clarify my specific religion: It is godless but has a certian unity within everything, it not being a sentinal nor having a gender but is a thoughtless infinite giant to which I respect. I call myself an Omnisrein
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| Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:59 am |
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This is why I say I admire faith but not religion. Religion is the one with all the laws and coulda shoulda bettas.
I really get freaked out sometimes and have posted before that I do think some religious people would stand aside and allow people to be massacred in these modern times if someone convinced them it was God's will.
Just take a look at the AIDs epidemic a few years ago. |
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| Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:36 am |
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Very good analysis...Trigger...look at Al-Queda...they are killing themselves with an intense religious belief..that they will get "whatever when they become a martyr".....just boggles my mind...
Ok..for instance ..you believe in a religion so intense that you will die for it cuz...you will be rewarded..and oh...while your dying for it take at least 2-3,000 people with you while your at it...that is intense belief of your religion...Look at the suicide bombers...can you imagine believing so much in something that your willing to sacrifice your life for it....strap the bombs to your body and go for it...I don't have that mentality...I can't understand that mentality..it would take someone who is sooooo obsessed and truely believes in their faith.."whatever that faith may be" to do something like that
While I'm trying to save the world...1 patient at a time..they are trying to kill off thousands because it is Allah's will......Different mentality...and a strong religious belief.. In Allah...
Baffles the mind if you ask me but then again..I wouldn't kill myself or anyone else just because some God told me to do it......El Bandito
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Never fear the dead, fear the living, they are more dangerous...."Trust Me" |
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| Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:31 am |
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That's why in the middle east we HAVE to get involved. The rest of the world really pisses me off in this.
In the Middle East they should be living like kings, their countries sit on top of all that oil. Just the oil industry alone should help them. You go into Kuwait and you'll see successful happy people, Dubai the same thing, Egypt the same thing.
But you go into these countries with Shari law and Dictators and the people there are all marginalized and these kids grow up with nothing and no opportunity. Most people who have no opportunity leave and go somewhere but most of these people are so isolated that they don't even understand that concept. That's why it is important to turn them from religious states to some sort of democracy.
Its unfair. We are pushing our agenda. We are overruling their culture and imposing ours. But honestly lets stop being PC about it. We have to.
Even though I don't like GB personally. And he scares the living crap out of me with his religious beliefs, I do believe that taking Saddam Hussein out was a very very very good thing. Its funny how the world likes to gloss that over. |
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| Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:03 am |
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| Trigger wrote: | | Even though I don't like GB personally. And he scares the living crap out of me with his religious beliefs, I do believe that taking Saddam Hussein out was a very very very good thing. Its funny how the world likes to gloss that over. |
I agree about GWB and the fact we took Hussein out of power. It is a shame that Bush used the reasons he did.
Hussein was people just for their religion and the people of the world do not stop to think if it was them being killed would they want someone to stop it?
Would they still complain about the reasons?
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NATIVE AMERICAN WISDOM |
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| Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:22 am |
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| Trigger wrote: |
Even though I don't like GB personally. And he scares the living crap out of me with his religious beliefs, I do believe that taking Saddam Hussein out was a very very very good thing. Its funny how the world likes to gloss that over. |
Another thing people seem to gloss over is the fact that it's because of the US and UK governments that Saddam was put into power... yep, we put him in power and gave him the weapons to slaughter the curds with. Fills me with so much pride in the government
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Join the Ministry! |
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| Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:27 am |
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That's shocking...
